Category: the Rant Board
I’m not writing this to simply bitch or turn my nose up in an elitist fashion, but rather to address a specific issue our message boards seem to face regularly. I know I’m not the only one that thinks along these lines. I’m also not the only one who would like to see the boards return to the better state they used to be in. All this being said, I think I’ll jump right in to a list of behaviors that simply must absolutely stop. There is no reason for three quarters of these things to regularly occur on the boards, and I honestly think some members of this sight need to be a lot more conscious of the fact that there is message board etiquette. The following list will comprise of some of the top issues I’ve noticed that need specific attention called to them.
1. Short useless messages. To put it bluntly, these messages serve no perpice, they add nothing to the conversation, and no one likes reading them. Messages like “lol”, “hmm.” “That’s interesting.” I disagree.” And all the rest lack context. In many cases, people are so generic. Confusion arises about what someone is actually agreeing with, and taking the time to figure out what someone actually meant derails the whole conversation. Honestly, the boards are not Quicknotes, and more is better, up to a point. When you disagree or agree, tell us why. Take the time to think more about actively contributing than just commenting to comment, because no one wants to read countless posts like that. What is the good of having thousands of posts in your name when most of them are worthless?
2. Bumping topics, much less bumping topics for no reason what so ever. We’ve all seen topics from 2005 or 2007 that have absolutely nothing to do with the current state of the zone, technology, world issues, or anything really. It seems like ninety five percent of these bumped topics are about specific zone drama that was only applicable at the time. The drama mostly relates to people who are not around the sight anymore, who don’t have a steak in any of the drama anymore, and who aren’t remotely associated with the people bumping the topics. We also get topics pushed back to the top that were created for a specific reason, which have none any longer. Is there a reason we should bring back a topic that was specifically designed to help pick a name for someone’s kid with specific requirements? I didn’t think so either. Fact is the boards have a search function for a reason and if you know how to make a search for something, you probably have a shot at finding what you’re looking for, without it needing to be “bumped to the top.” Some topics deserve to be bumped, but most that are bumped these days don’t. Yet again, this is an issue that just requires little thought. Ask yourself if the topic really needs to be bumped. Then think of an articulate reason, and build that in to the post you use to bump the topic.
3. Formatting, Formatting, and Formatting! I’ll make this one short and simple. There is absolutely no reason that someone should contribute to a discussion, with a post that is formatted to take up 15 plus lines, when 2 or 3 would have gotten the point across. I’m not harping on content specifically here, As I’ve said, it’s all about the formatting. I might be the only one to think this, but reading someone’s sentences with 3 or 4 words on a line gets annoying at best. Keep in mind, this doesn’t apply to lyrics, poetry, or other boards with a theme based on creative expression. Nor does this apply to someone who writes poetically to respond to a discussion. It applies just to those who choose odd formatting styles for no productive reason what so ever.
4. Multiple similar topics that contribute nothing really new. Common sense would dictate that if a topic already exists, and you will be covering the same exact or similar issues, there is no reason to choose to post a duplicate topic. All these topics do is create clutter, confusion, and force the community leaders to figure out exactly how to merge them into preexisting topics. To make it short and sweet, by taking these actions you create work for everyone but yourself. At best, you show you don’t care enough about the service you’re using to effectively create topics. At worst, you look quite selfish.
5. The general lack of common sense. All of the above complaints have something in common, and common sense would dictate that it is the very issue listed in this one. Fortunate enough then that it’s real easy to fix all of these issues by just observing this one. Let’s look at an example. It would be common sense to think about the content of a board post you make before you decide to share it with the world. It would be common sense to think about the length, content, relevance and formatting of your post and correct the pressing issues. Sadly this seems to be where our glorious little community falls short, and thankfully most of those who regularly post with a lack of common sense probably don’t post on other boards, because none of these things would fly.
Apart from community awareness, I’m not sure how we can fix these issues. The simple sounding solution would be to incorporate a respect points system and let users like us vote on the respectability of ones posts. We could add an additional respect rank that tallies all the plusses and minuses to calculate a total number, and encourage people in this way to evaluate the actions they take. If we really took this solution to an extreme, we could give standard or premiums the option to hide posts with a custom set negative threshold, and click links to unhide them, but honestly, this sounds like a lot of work, just to correct some people’s bad habits.
This little not quite guide is by no means complete in my eyes, and I’m sure I’ll remember more things to avoid doing that will get added in to this thread as I think of them. In closing, I ask that those of you who have taken the time to read through this start thinking about how your actions contribute positively or negatively to the boards as a hole, as well as how to go about productively addressing this issue. I think that we can slowly raise the quality of them, but this won’t be an easy task. I hope one day more users of this sight will see the boards as the resource they are, rather than something to be avoided because of the actions of people who don’t observe rule number five.
HI, Striker. I remember being on the QN's when you said you might post this, and I'm glad you've actually done so. I can only hope that people will read and take it to heart. I usually try to observe the rules you are talking about, as I have issues with the lack of etiquette on these boards as well. I could easily say amen to everything you've posted here, but there are a couple specific points I wanted to address, and to add one of my own.
First, the one I want to add, just so it's at the beginning, before someone gets tired of reading this. I would add a point 6: proof-read your posts, for God's sake! I understand we all make typing errors. I do it, too, and miss things when I try to proof my writing. None of us are perfect. But when I need to sift through a message to translate what a user was trying to say, that' speaks volumes. Maybe it is wrong, but online, your writing shows a lot about your personality and how much you care about what you've posted, so when I see terrible writing, I tend not to read the topic, even if it might have something interesting to say. I'm not sure why we have so many terrible writers on this site, and why so many people choose not to proof-read their posts, but it is a problem.
Now to your pointes, Striker. In point 2, you were talking about bumping topics. Yes, it is truly annoying when someone bumps up a topic that has to do with a past Zone issue. For example, I've seen the topic about Garret's banning get brought back several times, when it's not relevant anymore. But there are other topics that I am sometimes glad get bumped. These are usually on the boards like writer's block. People bumping posts on that one up to the top has allowed me to see writings that I may not have otherwise taken the time to search for. Some of the health and wellness topics work the same way. As you said though, it's a matter of common sense about what one chooses to bring back to the forefront.
I'm glad you were specific enough to say that things like poetry are not included in your point about formatting. Some may have taken that the wrong way. But otherwise, I entirely agree with your post.
On point 4, I also agree. I will only say this. I'm glad the feature to search the boards was implemented. *Shout out to whichever of the admins did that one*. It should be used more frequently than I think it is. In defense though, I will say that often searching the boards is a tedious process. I know I have had trouble doing so, and have probably posted my own share of topics that were once discussed somewhere else. I've also amended to that a line such as, "If someone knows where else this might have been posted, let me know." And, I appreciate you wanting to help us not work so much by trying to find all the duplicates. Smile.
I don't disagree with the solution you brought up in point 5, but I also don't think it could b implemented. I'll pass that one on, but I don't think it'll fly. Unfortunately, the outcry on this site would be...loud, to say the least. It may be seen as targeting certain users. While I don't care about that issue, I'm sure many on here would. Common sense is the bottom line, but unfortunately there is truth to the saying that common sense is not so common anymore.
The other bottom line is, I'm glad you posted this, and wish/hope others will heed what you have to say. I'm only afraid that those who most need your advice will be the last to read and use it. Smile.
Nicely done both Striker and SisterDawn.
The scary thing is some of us have proofread our posts and come off with, as the Equalizer has aptly put it, rambly posts. It's a good thing some of us don't write for a living; pointing at self.
But, one of the better board etiquette, net etiquette type posts I've read. Most are as peevish as a cat who won't stop nervously scratching in the litterbox.
I don't have much to add but just wanted to express my appreciation for the original post as well as sister dawn's additions.
I visit the message boards of a couple authors I like, and I am the only blind person on both of those boards. So I have to say it is not only blind people who don't seem to know how to type or spell or proofread their posts before posting. I see plenty of lousy writing on those other boards.
One thing I would like to add to the original post is that if you want to get people to read your post, please make the subject line state clearly what your post is about, and even if you tend to not proofread your posts, please at least be careful with spelling in the subject line. Nothing makes me less inclined to read someone's post than an unclear or hard to decipher subject line.
I'm sure no one wants to be regarded as unable to contribute to intelligent conversation because of blindness. That's why I've often wondered what's the purpose of contributing to a discussion if all that can be said is something along the lines of "I agree" with no explanation of why. Now I don't have quicknotes enabled but I do believe that's what that feature is for, discussions that call for much shorter responses.
I agree with what's been posted, but I really have to echo what post 4 stated. I belong to several forums that consist of mainly sighted people, and I've seen these same problems running rampant. If people would just use a bit of common sense when posting or replying, then browsing the boards would be a much more pleasant experience.
Ok, so I read this and am now wondering what damage I've caused to the boards in all my posts, but I do really appreciate you putting this up. Thanks James.
P.S. Don't go hounding me for not putting anything useful into this board. Appreciation is good too, right? :P
To dawn and others, you all echo what I'm thinking, that I didn't make as clear as I could have. Honestly, I was by no means happy with the content as presented, but I thought it would be for the best to stop trying to make little adjustments, simply because I don't know when I'd have gotten it out the door.
This being said, my thought about much of these things not flying on other boards really is sight indipendant. What I really ment in saying this is that in most comunities there is much more of a reason not to commit these errors. In some, the incentive comes in the form of being down ranked, in others its being chastized. As a hole all I was trying to comunicate on this issue is that the zone comunity is verry lax about this as a hole, and some of the users on here would be shocked if they stepped into comunities that were completely opposing.
Thanks for all the responses, and views for that matter. I honestly worried this topic would just get swallowed up by the system with out it being addressed in any form.
On a side note, I don't think people would like a change like the one i've proposed much in point five simply because it would call for more accountability, which is another thing our comunity is alittle lax on, and just to clear the air, that isn't another blindness directed statement. We have many blind and sighted that fall under the grouping.
For the reccord though, i'm considering doing a spinnoff topic under ideas just to open up a space to advertize and debate this issue on its own marrot.
I have a fealing many of those who wouldn't like the issue wouldn't click into this topic to express there views simply because of the topics somewhat preachy sounding subject line.
Come on, James, you should know I wouldn't have let it get swallowed in the system, since I really wish people would read an pay attention to what this topic has to say. Speaking of bumping topics, I'm guilty of it myself. *Grin* I could just make the topic sticky, so that it stays at the top of the board category, but I'll be a good little CL and not do that.
First of all, I have to say, I don't think I've ever seen the boards in the condition that all of us dream about. The posts containing only "lol", "I like this", "this is awesome" and "this rocks" among other things have been around since I was even before a community leader. Though I have to admit since giving up the position and occasionally checking out the boards once in a while I have seen it occurring on a more frequent basis. The truth of the matter is most people do it because they want to get their pretty little rank on the site rankings. Most of them will probably outright deny it, but I would be willing to bet a year's pay that it's the truth.
As for not proofreading your posts, this is another thing that I'm afraid is quite common not only in the VI community but in many other communities and forums as well. It has become a stereotype though that blind people can't spell and suck at grammar.
Regarding your point about bumping topics, I have in the past during my reign as the dictator of the zone suggested that topics should be locked after a certain amount of time. Obviously I can see this as being an issue in boards like the ones on game parlor, so perhaps certain categories could be exempt from it. The fact of the matter is though most of these topics have no relevance after a year or so. hell, most of them don't even matter after about a month.
Regarding duplicate topics, I'm afraid that there's little we can do to prevent them from being posted. People are quite simply too lazy to search for topics that have to do with what they want to post about and so decide to just post it themselves. Yes it means more work for the CL's but the good users of the site should just continue to report these topics. It's all that can really be done until the laziness lessens.
I agree that topics should be locked after a certain amount of time, provided nobody has posted to it during that period of time; perhaps a year or two. My thinking is that if nobody has bumped it by that point, the topic probably doesn't matter to anyone anymore.
I also agree with the suggestion that we should be able to review posts. However, if people don't care enough about what others think when reading them, they probably don't care about any such rating anyone gives them either. It's sad, but most people that faile to incorperate common sense into their lives most likely aren't aware something is missing.
I don't think reviewing would work. I mean there are people who would give someone a negative review just because they don't like that person. And exactly what kinds of things would we be expected to base our reviews on? Grammar and spelling? Length of post? Relevance? Relevance, for example, is subjective and so are many other aspects a certain person may base their review on.
I believe the boards are products of the people, and the people are as they are. I for one am guilty of not proofing my post,and my spelling and grammar leave much to be corrected sometime. However, I do write some correctly spelled and such offten. Sometimes I just can't help being flippant, depending on the topic. I suppose I'm just not a stuffy person. A website such as this and many sighted forms, are places to relax, so you will have all of your issues, because of the people condition.
Grace, have you read this post yet? She just leaves me speechless! ( sometimes).
I'm...sure if ...she had...read...this post yet..we'd have seen a totally...irrelevant and...hard to decipher...comment...
we've already seen negative reviews given out for no apparent reason in the audio profile section. It just happens. Oh well; it just reveals their lack of maturity more than anything else.
For clarification purposes, I'm not talking about people who give carefully thought out reviews with a comment to go with their rating. I'm only talking about the people who just throw out 1's and 10's with no comment of any kind.
As I suspected would happen, I'm noticing that the only people posting to this board are the ones who actually know how to write posts. Hmmmm.
Yes, that does seem to be the case. People who should read it and learn something from it are sure it doesn't apply to them.
If anyone thinks scrappy writing is unique to this site, maybe you're not old enough to remember Usenet?
I remember many newsgroups were full of two things: vapid content, and pithy commentary about its vapidity. I should say this site does look a lot more like Usenet in that way than anything else. If anything, forums boards are becoming less frequent, so it's possible forum audiences are perhaps more selective? There is a big difference between this site and the forums.pipes.org site, a rather erudite bunch of pipe smokers. Forums cater to populations, but this one sure seems to resemble the old rec.arts.bodyart or rec.pets.birds forums, just to name a couple high-volume areas. I have no idea how many of the blind were there: I was, but since being blind wasn't discussed there wouldn't be much of a way to poll the population.
If your school or ISP has access to an NNTP server, or you have the patience to play with Google News, you'll see precisely what I'm talkin' about.
Thanks to the topic creator. It's about time someone addresses these issues. It's unfortunate that basic things like spelling and grammer go out the window online. Not only have I seen many atrocious posts on here, but on mainstream forums as well, from music and travel, to technology and history etc. In my mind, that's not acceptable. People should not have to deal with reading content with spelling mistakes that a third grader would not make. Your writing, both in content and quality, defines who you are online to a certain extent. First impressions are important, however, many in the online community just don't give a toss and won't bother looking at this in the first place. The internet is not my life, however, I care about my reputation. To me, it's important to put some effort into what you do and it's far better to come across as an intelligent individual as opposed to being seen as a bumbling idiot.
I would
Like to say
that I agree
with this post
even though I
sound like obama
when he's giving a
speech
I think
you will understand
what I'm
trying to say
maybe
if you
don't just
skip this
because its
really annoying
or of course you get those people that have no idea how to use proper puncuation and they ramble on and on and on and on and on until your screen reader sounds like its larynx is about to drop out if its voice gets any lower and you wonder if its voice can actually get any lower and you've completely lost the entire point of the sentence because your mind started wandering about twenty minutes into the sentence and the person continues to ramble until you can't even tell if they're typing anymore and you get so frustrated that you shove a fork through your ear and never can hear horrible sentences like this one again I really hate it when people do that
Oh, nad slepling, dont enve gte em strated no splleing
Lmao, Cody! That was awesome! and my screen reader did exactly that, so you must have tested it before you posted it. Huge grin. Thanks for that laugh, and for making a good point in your usual humorous way.
LMAO Cody. Thanks for the laugh.
Cody, that was brilliant. I loved it.
I'll admit, I was sometimes one of those who would simply put an, "I agree," or something short on the message boards, but i've gotten out of that habit now, thank goodness.
I am also not afraid to admit I proofread my posts before they go up.
Everyone, take care.
I agree.
Even the best writers make the occasional typo sometimes. Proofreading is a must. it's definitely surprising, the mistakes I've found in my own typing sometimes, mistakes I never thought I would ever make. I'm glad you can view your post before you actually post it. I find I often take advantage of this feature. I really wish certain others would, too.
Bunping this topic forward, and thereby thrusting all other topics backwards.
{
and_while_we're_at_it_let_us_(indiscriminately)-use_coding/math_symbols_like_curly_braces++
}
O yeah.
Thanks for that.
I agree.
Anyone else have anything they would like to say?
Because boards are about discussion, after all.
So if anyone has anything else to say,
this topic has once again been moved forward.
Don't forget to post.
Lmao!
Yes!
I see this has turned into a topic for satire. These latest posts have made me laugh, but I still think Cody's was the best. *Smile*
I'm going to bump this post forward with a serious bit of conversational banter. If your going to post a board topic, make it in regular words please? Why is it I need to go to the modern homey dictionary to figure out what half the board posts and written profiles are actually trying to say? I shouldn't need to get a slang translator, I shouldn't even need a dictionary most of the time, use words, there are hundreds of thousands, I don't think you need to make up nonsensical ones that have no definition to anyone but you. If Emily Dickinson could work her miracles with words, so can we.
Oh, and I will close this with my favorite reply to a board I've ever seen, "lol". I love that, why don't you just come straight out and say, "I read this, enjoyed it, but either I'm too lazy, or I can't actually connect enough thoughts coherently to make a worthwhile post, so I'll just write three letters in hopes that you'll see some hidden meaning in my inability to express myself with anything resembling skill or aptitude whatsoever."
Yes, I agree. It's quite obnoxious. Decent spelling, grammer, and normal English... You'd think those things would not even have to be discussed. I am really tired of seeing the lack of effort in many posts various places on the net. Lastly, the only places that ebonics should be are on rappers web sites. That is only my opinion though of course.
I tend to agree. That internet shorthand crap really grates on my nerves. I need hardly point out that I made a solemn vow that I would never resort to that nonsense myself even while text messaging.
I use shorthand, but only while I'm texting sometimes, particularly on a phone that does not have a full keyboard...but I will never understand why people feel the need to use iton here, especially in board posts.
But on a more relevant note, I'll admit; I myself have been previously guilty of posting single-lined stuf such as "lol", or "I agree", with out giving any further explaination. But for the most part, I've broken myself of that habbet. I believe single-lined posts should only be acceptable on boards like the game parler, Writer's block in some cases, and the joke board. and lmao Cody! I'm pressed for time; so I'll post whatever else I have to say later.
So striker, I am supposed to come on the zone and actually think hard about what I write? Goodness some people take this online "world" to seriously. It is just a way to escape the real world for a while or kill time.
No, your not supposed to think really hard about it, your supposed to know the basic rules of proper grammar and sentence structure. Its not so much to ask for you to utilize something they beat into your head in the third grade. I mean, ending a sentence with a period, or using a comma every once in a while, isn't asking a lot, and to just say "lol" all the time is completely pointless, and you might as well just not even put in your half a cent, because "lol" is not giving anything to the conversation. All we're asking is that you give some form of thought, some evidence that you have a smattering of intelligence, and that you do it in a way that doesn't make the rest of us want to rip our own teeth out to keep from grinding them together whenever you write something. That's all we're asking, you should be able to do that without thinking too hard. If you can't, get a book and learn how.
Agreed. why bother posting if you're not contributing to the conversation. that would be like someone randomly walking into the room while you were having a conversation with someone else, laughing, and then promptly walking back out again. what's the point?
I'm not a stickler for perfect spelling or grammar. If I understand the message the poster is trying to convey, I'm happy.
But one of my guy friends and I were talking about why we dislike Facebook. In short my guy friend said, "Michael Zucker came up with this concept being distanced from much socializing." I said, "Well, gosh darnit I'm not much in the social skills department, either, but I still want intelligent conversation." And facebook isn't the place for it. As Paul puts it, "Where is the 'Paul doesn't like this' button?" If I wanted a lot of "Squidward likes this" or "LOL"'s, that's where I'd go. Or I'd get my quick notes reactivated. And it's sad, 'cause a woman I used to have real intelligent conversations with on another forum has been reduced to posting every other photo and "Unnamed Likes This" type of postings since we reconnected on Facebook. That's the kind of sentiment I personally see in this thread.
There's a difference between making the odd mistake here and there, and writing:
this conversation is a really good topic thank u 2 the original poster 4 posting it i hope other people agree lol
true that is annoying
Lol Cody! Dead brilliant.
All good points, James. Though no, I don't really think point 5 would be feasible. Nice thought, however.
I always proofread my posts and even my e-mails. Lol. I'm a bit of a stickler. Guess it's all those English classes.
I always read over my posts before I post them. Strangely, my biggest error is skipping words. Don't know why.
Bob
I do that too, or sometimes I skip a letter or a few LOL. But I'm such a stickler for the English language that it really sets my teeth on edge when I see stuff like plz instead of please or thx instead of thanks. I don't even do that when I'm texting, wheter te phone's got a full keyboard or not. I prefer to be understood. And i agree with those who get anoyed with one-liners like LOL I agree when there's no elaboration as to what you're agreeing with.
Is it just me, or is it either brilliant or sarcastic that "board" is spelled "b o r e d" in the subjectf this post, thus cleverly representing the type of errors that get on the original poster's nerves, or just shows that we're all guilty of this, and that the original poster should start by cleaning up his/her own posts first.
Hmmm!
I'm sure it's a secret message from the bored (no A) Gods.
Bob
I'm only a stickler for english when in a conversation with someone. Board errors don't bother me as much.
They get to me when they make a message practically unreadable.
Well, yes when it is that jumbled than of course.
And as far as I'm concerned that is exactly what text lingo does. Maybe I'm old fashioned but at least I bother to try and make myself understood.
Then the folks who speak shenglish (shorthand English) act as if we were dumb for not knowing what the hell they are talking about. They forget that communications is a two-way street, unless you are just spouting off to hear yourself spout.
Just my opinion.
Bob
People are lacking in communication skills today because of all the lingo used in text messages, web forums, etc.
I'm not sure I would go so far as to say people are lacking communication skills because of that. However, I would venture to say that people are too quick to throw out the hugs, kisses, "LOL"'s and all sorts of other vertual emotions they're usually not really feeling. this normally isn't a problem, until you actually allow yourself to get attached to someone online because of said gestures.
Never thought of that. Good point.
Let us all bow our heads in memory of plain old English LOL.